Bob Jones U changes Policy on Race
My Dad was a student there, as was my Uncle Prentice for a couple years.
One of my Mother's best friends from Collinsville was a graduate and became the first woman from Dekalb County Alabama to get her Doctorate, Penn State.
Mary Catherine Reed was her name.
I have to believe Mary Catherine woulda voted against some of her extended family when they voted me off the church property May 28, 2006; she had come a long ways from the more isolationist views of the Bob Jones she studied at.
Mary Catherine always impressed me as a woman who appreciated convictional dissent.
Even so, she did vote a couple years earlier to stay in the SBC cause no denomination is perfect. However, if my Mother had lived and they coulda studied Susan Shaw's book about Shaw's Mother's Bible Study class at West Rome, I think she and Martha Barksdale woulda done the right thing and had the courage of their convictions to express reservations about the fundamentalist turn of Southern Baptists.
But I digressed.
The story made the Chronicle for Higher Education and www.ethicsdaily.com
Here is the testimony of one of the current students from the Chronicle, with a previous one from a violin player who graduated from BJU and now teaches at U Chicago.
I am a senior at Bob Jones and it is apparent that there exists many myths about what campus life is like today.
First, evolution is taught in biology courses. So, to the idiot that made the remark that it isn’t is, well, an idiot. The vast majority of students that attend Bob Jones have a specific goal in mind: To enter the ministry. Yes, we could go to seminaries ( I plan to, afterwards) but this is the only university that has really accepted me and my beliefs. Because I believe in Christ, I was often ridiculed at two other state universities. “Research Universities” are not exactly the most accepting to those that might not adhere to their secular humanistic beliefs. I entered Bob Jones and found a place that was friendly, people were actually nice, the professors (outside of religion courses) were great. I learned the same calculus at Bob Jones as I would at any other university. The history professors were great. They all gained their doctorates from other institutions, some public some private. I will go to a respected seminary (I’ve already been accepted) and then on to a career as an Army Chaplain.I will be serving God and my country. I need no one to tell me about Bob Jones University for it has been very good to me and to many others. Most students here want to go into the ministry. Oh, and Latin and Greek are taught.
It’s amazing how much misinformation is posted here. It is “information” posted not as a result of actually looking at where our professors got their degrees or what courses are offered (other than religion) but on nothing other than a deeply ingrained antipathy toward religion, in general.
Sorry folks. “BJ” is here to stay and it is as fine an institution as any other. It is one that actually allows a person to practice their religion without being scorned and ridiculed.The best decision I have ever made….Bob Jones University. A career as a military chaplain.
— student Nov 22, 04:24 AM #
http://chronicle.com/news/article/5545/bob-jones-u-issues-apology-for-past-racist-policies
One of my Mother's best friends from Collinsville was a graduate and became the first woman from Dekalb County Alabama to get her Doctorate, Penn State.
Mary Catherine Reed was her name.
I have to believe Mary Catherine woulda voted against some of her extended family when they voted me off the church property May 28, 2006; she had come a long ways from the more isolationist views of the Bob Jones she studied at.
Mary Catherine always impressed me as a woman who appreciated convictional dissent.
Even so, she did vote a couple years earlier to stay in the SBC cause no denomination is perfect. However, if my Mother had lived and they coulda studied Susan Shaw's book about Shaw's Mother's Bible Study class at West Rome, I think she and Martha Barksdale woulda done the right thing and had the courage of their convictions to express reservations about the fundamentalist turn of Southern Baptists.
But I digressed.
The story made the Chronicle for Higher Education and www.ethicsdaily.com
Here is the testimony of one of the current students from the Chronicle, with a previous one from a violin player who graduated from BJU and now teaches at U Chicago.
I am a senior at Bob Jones and it is apparent that there exists many myths about what campus life is like today.
First, evolution is taught in biology courses. So, to the idiot that made the remark that it isn’t is, well, an idiot. The vast majority of students that attend Bob Jones have a specific goal in mind: To enter the ministry. Yes, we could go to seminaries ( I plan to, afterwards) but this is the only university that has really accepted me and my beliefs. Because I believe in Christ, I was often ridiculed at two other state universities. “Research Universities” are not exactly the most accepting to those that might not adhere to their secular humanistic beliefs. I entered Bob Jones and found a place that was friendly, people were actually nice, the professors (outside of religion courses) were great. I learned the same calculus at Bob Jones as I would at any other university. The history professors were great. They all gained their doctorates from other institutions, some public some private. I will go to a respected seminary (I’ve already been accepted) and then on to a career as an Army Chaplain.I will be serving God and my country. I need no one to tell me about Bob Jones University for it has been very good to me and to many others. Most students here want to go into the ministry. Oh, and Latin and Greek are taught.
It’s amazing how much misinformation is posted here. It is “information” posted not as a result of actually looking at where our professors got their degrees or what courses are offered (other than religion) but on nothing other than a deeply ingrained antipathy toward religion, in general.
Sorry folks. “BJ” is here to stay and it is as fine an institution as any other. It is one that actually allows a person to practice their religion without being scorned and ridiculed.The best decision I have ever made….Bob Jones University. A career as a military chaplain.
— student Nov 22, 04:24 AM #
http://chronicle.com/news/article/5545/bob-jones-u-issues-apology-for-past-racist-policies
posted by foxofbama | 1:16 PM
25 Comments:
Stephen,
If President-Elect Obama does, in fact, sign the Freedom of Choice Act as his first action when he becomes President Barack Obama that one action will do the following:
1. Eliminate state laws that limit abortion.
2. Allow abortion-on-demand for all nine months of pregnancy.
3. It will invalidate pro-life laws passed since the 1973 passing of Roe v. Wade.
4. It will invalidate the ban on partial-birth abortions.
5. It will invalidate the ban on the federal funding of abortions.
6. It will invalidate the ban of abortions in government operated hospitals.
7. It will invalidate parental notification laws.
8. It will invalidate laws on waiting periods before a person has an abortion.
9. It will invalidate conscience laws.
There is much more this terrible action will do but surely the above should be enough to make one see the "clear and present danger" in the Freedom of Choice Act if it is signed into law. Many say that an additional 125,000 American children will die in 2009 added to the 1,300,000 who are already going to die as a result of Roe V. Wade being the law of the land.
The Freedom of Choice Act is nothing less than a barbarian act and the man who would sign it is, in fact, the most dangerous man to unborn American children thus far in the Twenty-First Century. How can it be otherwise?
Therefore, I do call upon every man, woman, boy and girl who claims Jesus as their Lord (especially Southern Baptists who should all know the truth) and who actually understands the sanctity of human life as plainly presented in the Word of God to pray for our President-Elect that he will turn from this promise he has made and seek the face of God and refuse to sign the Freedom of Choice Act which is nothing more than a license to kill the most helpless and innocent among us.
How can we look upon WWII Germany or the Stalin Era Soviet Union with disgust and not see what a bloody nation we have become since the year of our Lord 1973 due to the passing of Roe v. Wade?
Not only must our President-Elect repent, but all government leaders should repent. Also, the churches in America must repent. Pastors and preachers must repent. Our nation is in the bloody grip of a monster of abomination and we are yet far too silent as called men of God and followers of Christ in this matter.
Stephen, how can you be against praying for the President-Elect to refuse to keep his promise to sign FOCA.
Surely your family would chastise you for not being supportive of such a request.
Even some very strong liberals would not want to see FOCA become law.
cb
Wow! I didn't see a thing in this post related to abortion. However, it should be pointed out that The FOCA would have to be passed before the President could sign it. I sincerely doubt that such a controversial bill would pass so quickly that it would be his first action. Also, what is a conscience law?
Now to the actual post. That is an interesting post from the current student. My son attends a state institution, GA Tech, and there are Chrisitian religious organizations all over campus. I have never heard him say anything about anyone who attends them being ridiculed. I'm sure BJU is a good school. After having read its rules, I sure couldn't attend it. But, it's a free country, and if someone wants to go there and abide by those rules, it works for me.
GMM,
You are right. But, I am sure Stephen does not mind. He is constantly going off topic on my and many other folk's posts.
You are also right about FOCA being controversial. Yet, Barack Obama did, in fact promise Planned Parenthood July 17, 2007 the "first thing" he would do if elected president would be to sign FOCA.
Did you know that before you voted for him?
A conscience law is a law that protects doctors, hospitals, etc. who refuse to abort babies due to religious or other convictions. If FOCA becomes law such a refusal would become invalid.
cb
Brother Fox might have different convictions if he had attended Bob Jones University.
Would be interesting to see how many BJU grads are in Southern Baptist life or how many are in CBF life.
I understand that Fishers Humphreys, retired Prof from Beeson Divinity School, attend Bob Jones University for two years and then transferred to Mississippi College.
I sure did know that before I voted for him. If my wife was in danger and a doctor or hospital refused an abortion to save her life, I would hope there wouldn't be a law to protect them, when I sued the tar out of them, and don't start any of that sinner stuff on me. I would want myself or my wife in control of that decision, not the government. I will let God make that decision in the end, not you the govt. or the right-wing fundamentalist cause. Mainly, because we do not know how God feels about this issue. A lot of folks like to make us think they hear him talking to them, but I don't know anyone who has a direct line to him to get his opinion. Like most people who feel as I, I am not in favor of abortion as birth control, but there are times when it is necessary. There are other ways to control abortion without risking the lives of thousands of women in illegal abortion mills with an across the board ban. This is probably not the place to debate this, and Mr. Fox can remove this if he wishes.
GMM,
I have never heard God talk to me, but I do have a direct line to His opinion.
God's Word states His position on murder. God hates abortion.
It is so simple even a "caveman" can understand it....or....even a Mountain Man.
cb
One more thing GMM,
You seem to have missed the substance of my question.
I was asking you if you knew he had promised to sign FOCA if he became president.
I did not ask you about current abortion legislation.
FOCA goes far beyond what is probably your own position on abortion.
I say that based only upon the qualifications you placed upon abortion in your last comment.
FOCA will do all of the things I said it would above and more.
That is what I asked if you know before you voted for him.
cb
I understood your question. God hates murder, but man has interpreted the beginning of life. We don't need to debate this here or anywhere else, because we don't agree and aren't going to agree.
Mountain Man, you miss obvious teaching from Scripture. CB is speaking biblical truth.
The Bible is God's revelation of truth. Scripture is sufficient to form our convictions on the origin of life.
Rev. Scott is dead on with his biblical perspective.
John Killian and the GMM are my friends. I'm not sure about CB Scott.
But neither Killian nor Scott have listened to the easily googled up interview of Berkely Proff Gorney on NPR Fresh Air; a show of Oct 29 or 30.
And neither appear to have a working conversational knowledge of the thinking of Garry Wills on the matter.
Rick Lance is of no disposition it seems to me to roll the heads of folks in the Alabama Baptist Convention whose political strategies and views on abortion differ with CB Scott and Dr. Killian.
Till they convince Rick Lance and the Alsbom staff to start the purging of church rolls and salaried employs of Bama Baptist institutions, then they have a moot point.
Timothy George's 93 ERLC pamphlet on abortion is garbage.
Ask UMC Bishop Willimon or Collinsville Pastor John Morgan's son Matthew, now on staff with the UMC in DC.
GMM and I know where your blog is, CB Scott. Let's discuss it there and at the site of the 2nd VP of the Bama Baptist convention.
In meantime I hope to have some links for you here after Thanksgiving.
In the meantime, yall have a Happy one, no kiddin.
Any thoughts on these BJU sites I have listed and the comments there?
Thanks Dr. Killian for the aside on Fisher Humphreys. I think I had heard of his BJU connection, but forgotten.
He is interesting fellow indeed with membership at BCOC and Uncle of Charles Marsh, who I want to remind you and Scott, will have an interview in Dec. issue of Baps Today.
GMM,
I respect your response and will leave it there.
Yet, that is not the case for Stephen. He constantly brings off topic comments on to several blogs I read and also to my posts. He never answers questions.
Therefore, I bring this to his blog. Maybe he can clean up his own backyard before coming into mine again.
Then he tells me that I am being monitored on BaptistLife.com. That is fine. I would think some of those fellows would not like President-Elect Obama to sign FOCA either.
That has been the main thrust of the last two posts I have written. I had pretty much ceased to blog until the election became close and I want to post relating to Obama and his promise to sign FOCA.
I will be back shortly
cb
Stephen,
You left unfinished business over at my place.
I will bring it here for you to answer.
Stephen,
I could not care less who is monitoring this.
Again, Do you believe President-Elect Obama should sign FOCA
Stephen,
I will ask you this:
How is it an illadvised position to ask that people pray President-Elect Obama will turn away from his promise to sign FOCA?
Stephen, FOCA has been the focus of my posts. Feel free to answer the questions. Feel free to come to my place and talk about the issue, but please don't come back rambling and babbling like you do everywhere else. Even the guys at BL.com are getting tired of it, I am sure.
I'll be right back
cb
Stephen,
I guess you will thank me. You have never had this much traffic on your blog have you?
That seems to happen when I am around. I never have understood why?
Nonetheless, glad to help.
cb
I left CB Scott a link at www.baptistlife.com where a thread has been started in his honor.
It is called parsing the politics of abortion and there is plenty in the link to keep him and Al Mohler and Timothy George and Rick Lance busy through the holidays.
I'm done here at my site with it till after Christmas.
I am taking down his latest comments until he learns how to behave, and quits this boorish behavior;
Most importantly till he engages Gorney and Garry Wills and makes a report about what he has learned at HIS Blog.
He did raise some questions about sexual activity in the blog I deleted cause it went on way too long and I see no inclination on his part to set up a forum where we can engage some of the reservations Carey Newman, David Gushee and Barry hankins have with Mohler and Land.
To answer his question about sexual relations.
I do believe the sexual activity between CB Scott's Mother and Father that brought him into the world was a grave Mistake; and to paraphrase Joan Rivers whatsherface they shoulda thrown away the baby and slapped the afterbirth.
Just testing your sense of humor there CB;
I'm done, no more here from you on this subject on my blog.
We'll keep it at your place.
About Obama and FOCA; I left you a great link at bl.com, CB with reference to Douthat and Charles Marsh's reviewer Damon Linker.
I cannot say it any better than they said it.
Engage Linker and Douthat; and by all means get Bob Terry and Rick Lance to do the same.
Stephen,
I do like a little humor.
Try this one on. It is the last three comments between you, I and Malcolm Yarnell over at SBC TODAY.
Stephen Fox Says:
BDidd Aaron Weaver, who is promising folks at baptistlife.com he will do a review of Baylor Proff Barry Hankins new book on Al Mohler and Richard Land’s mentor Francis Schaeffer, alerted me to this discussion.
For the last couple days I have been wrestling with CB Scott and my friend Bama SBC 2nd VP John Killian on these matters.
It is now a strong discussion at bl.com
You fellows have no answer to Berkely proff Gorney as interviewed on NPR Fresh Air Oct 29 or 30; easily googled up.
A Wikipedia searched article destroys all the accusations CB Scott has made about Obama and his abortion politics.
McClaren has left the Richard Land/Rick Warren position, and Garry Wills diced and sliced your arguments to pieces in his recent book American Christianities The Rove Era.
You are a disservice to civil and rational discussion with these tired accusations and wedge issue politics.
The list of folks you would name as baby killers is getting longer by the day as you madly persist in further marginalizing yourself from mainstream Christian civil discourse on this troubling issue.
Get a grip
Malcolm Yarnell Says:
Thank you, Stephen, for that highly coherent statement.
cb scott Says:
Malcolm,
I must come to Stephen’s defense here. He was going to make a statement, but his fingers must have “aborted” his mind’s “birthing” a coherent communication.
Of course,if we take the position of the Pro-Choice camp the communication was not coherent while it was present in his mind. During the thought gestation period it was only “gibberish.”
Therefore, we cannot fault his fingers for the destruction of what could have been a coherent communication.
For, after all, who can know when a communication becomes coherent?
Until it is decreed differently by the courts we must assume Stephen’s communications to be gibberish and not coherent at all.
cb
Stephen,
Let me know if you think it is "clever."
Also, I still hold that invitation open for lunch with you and John Killian. What do you say?
cb
I hope you and your family have a safe and happy Christmas and New Year. I look forward your posts afterward. By the way J. Killian is infinitely correct. I miss obvious scriptural teaching, but I have my opinions. Obviously, they aren't necessarily based on Scripture. By the way, I just checked out my first Ron Rash book, "The World Made Straight." I also found that my great grandmother Reed migrated from Buncombe Co., NC to the Newberry Co. area of SC and is buried in Clinton. As a result, I look forward to reading "Eureka Mill."
GMM and Stephen,
Have a great Thanksgiving.
Greetings, Stephen. You might be interested in knowing that CB Scott is, to date, not allowing my comments to be posted on his blog (note that, to date, three of my posts have been denied [none, however, contain questionable language]), but is allowing comments about me, to which, again, my responses to such are being denied (note that prior to the Burleson's comment appeared on the blog, I had responded to Jake). As you can see from the blog, my comments have been respectful, that is, I have said nothing that merits the treatment that I am being afforded nor the repeated ad-hominem attacks directed at me. You and Burleson have allowed CB to post his disagreements on your respective blogs, to which I commend both of you for such; and I have also allowed him to post and respond on mine, yeah, even his disagreements and ad-hominem comments, and will continue to do so. In any event, recall your suggestion that the conversation be held at his place instead of your place, in doing so know that, currently, at least one voice is being excluded, even as it is being derided. Hopefully CB will read this post and reconsider his apparent decision to exclude my comments.
Heretic,
You and I have nothing left to discuss relating to FOCA. You have become completely redundant.
I will post on something else soon. If you can speak to the issue I will let you post, unless, of course, I decide otherwise.
I trust you have a great Thanksgiving.
cb
CB: Heretic, You and I have nothing left to discuss relating to FOCA. You have become completely redundant. I will post on something else soon. If you can speak to the issue I will let you post, unless, of course, I decide otherwise. I trust you have a great Thanksgiving.
bapticus hereticus: Yet you will allow others to raise questions about me and not allow a response from myself. Amazing. CB, that I have a different perspective that you (and your regulars) strongly oppose is no justification for the ungracious and capricious manner in which you have treated my participation on your blog; but you are not the first fundamentalist (but the most recent, but by only a few months) to so act toward me, and I suspect you won't be the last, either.
Stephen and Thy Peace,
On July 17, 2007 Barack Obama did promise he would sign FOCA in a speech before a Planned Parenthood group. That is a fact. He did, in fact, stand against the Induced Infant Liability Act in 2002. he also stood against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act in 2003. All of the above are facts and cannot be refuted.
My conflict with Wade does not really matter in the big picture. Your personal problems with conservative theology are not really important here either.
The personal needs and desires of Thy Peace or whoever the person is, is also of no major importance. The opinions of people related to me or my opinions of Wade in the last year matter nothing.
What does matter is that people who call themselves followers of Christ need to pray that when Barack Obama becomes President Obama he does not sign FOCA. He does not even need to speak in favor of its passage for him to be able to sign it. he needs to denounce it as the wicked thing it is.
I am praying for the President-Elect that he will lead this country well and that he will seek the face of God in doing so. He already has a great problem before him due to what happened in India in the last coupe of days.
I am praying for him to have wisdom in dealing with such matters. When he was elected he became the man who I will call Mr. President. He is the man I will pray for as directed in Scripture.
Stephen, no matter what your political position is. No matter mine or Wade's; (Wade's is closer to mine than to yours even if he never states so publicly)
The bottom line is babies are dying for no other reason than America is worshiping at the altars of Greed and Lust. There is no doubt that God hates abortion for the reasons it is primarily practiced in our nation.
The truth is that if FOCA gets to the desk of President Barack Obama and he signs it as he promised great slaughter will be reality in our land. That one action will do the following:
1. Eliminate state laws that limit abortion.
2. Allow abortion-on-demand for all nine months of pregnancy.
3. It will invalidate pro-life laws passed since the 1973 passing of Roe v. Wade.
4. It will invalidate the ban on partial-birth abortions.
5. It will invalidate the ban on the federal funding of abortions.
6. It will invalidate the ban of abortions in government operated hospitals.
7. It will invalidate parental notification laws.
8. It will invalidate laws on waiting periods before a person has an abortion.
9. It will invalidate conscience laws.
There is much more this terrible action will do but surely the above should be enough to make one see the "clear and present danger" in the Freedom of Choice Act if it is signed into law. Many say that an additional 125,000 American children will die in 2009 added to the 1,300,000 who are already going to die as a result of Roe V. Wade being the law of the land.
The Burlesons know that. The Scotts know that. The Clevelands know that. Most all rational thinking Christians know that, no matter if they are liberal, moderate, conservative, Baptists Methodists or Catholics. it is a fact.
We all need to pray that FOCA never becomes part of our existence as a nation.
What I can't understand, Stephen, is why you can't see that. This is not an issue deserving political or theological polarization. We are talking about the death of the innocents. And, my brother, that is wrong.
cb
I don't think things went as well as you had hoped over at Wade's place do you, Stephen?
cb
It's a little late for BJU to make the change but change they must. The cries of racism will be heard for a long time on this one.
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